From: Stian Andersen
Sent: November 19, 2009 4:13 PM
To: Chris CowlingSubject: RE:
Because I disagree. I think he has spent really wisely and made the team loads better than it was years ago and he has got talented players coming through. Insua is 3 times better than Riise ever was for example. We have the best striker in the PL and one of the best midfielders in Mascherano and Steve G. And with Reina we have got a stellar keeper than can compete with almost any one… and has over the last 4 yrs kept more clean sheets than any other in the PL. We have also over the last 4 yrs scored more goals than any other team in the PL over those 4 yrs.
Those are all factors that indicate success. Winning titles isn’t possible until you have the right foundations and Rafa is getting us closer to that. It is like when Ferguson started off. Everything wasn’t in place but he is slowly got there and now you are a club with awesome stadium facities, a great scouting network, a great academy, perfect finances and a fan base that is massive cause of the commercial and marketing parts of the club has been put in place as well.
Those are all factors of success that makes it easier for manager to perform on the field.
His tactics in the league are not always great, I will admit that but they have been fantastic against the big 4 over the last two seasons. We have more wins than any other team. That the players get complacent against weaker teams is not much we can do about. Last season, some times it was down to not having enough goal scorers in the team (which again eludes to the money argument) and at times it was down to Benitez not being offensive enough in his tactics.
Personally I think that has changed this year where he risks more. With risking more you will also get more losses than draws and the defence will look more frail. The buy of Glen Johnson clearly showed a more offensive approach, illustrating that he Benitez wants an even more expansive style of football.
I think it will serve him well but success with this style of football is conditional your defence playing well. Carragher and Kyriakos has just been awful for us this year much like Vidic and Rio for you guys.
Agree with your argument about Chelsea and Real. It is widely known that stability breeds success. Yet money has a lot to say. Chelsea winning the league two years in a row with Morinho showed that and Capello’s win of La Liga showed the same thing.
I think it is a combination but money is a much bigger factor than you give it credit for Mr. Cowling.
YNWA,
Stian
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From: Chris Cowling
Sent: November 19, 2009 2:33 PM
To: Stian Andersen
Subject: RE:
Again you are looking for excuses - is it his fault that his stadium is bigger, or that he has owners willing to go into debt - they were able to add to the stadium and buy players because they were winning, that's what happens when you win .... your support grows, your revenue grows. your youth squad??? are you kidding ... what has he done there? You could also put together a list like below comparing Chelsea and ManU or Real and ManU - those two teams have spent a lot more than ManU - yet Fergie rebuilds and wins. why can't Liverpool fans accept that he has not spent wisely and his tactics in the league are terrible... i.e. game vs. Fulham. You are a two man team - too bad those two men are injury prone! Now he adds a third injury prone player.... great manager!
-----Original Message-----
From: Stian Andersen
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:01 PM
To: Chris Cowling
Subject: RE:
Completely disagree! The difference is the revenue created and you can just look at the debt levels. 800mill or more for you… 230mill for us… that speaks volumes. Stadium also houses about double the people and if you look at the transfer bill over the last 5 yrs since Rafa has been in charge you can clearly see the difference.
I took the time to write it out a while ago since I had this conversation with a fellow Man United fan a while back.
Rafa benitez has also had to rebuild a youth squad and squad players, not only the first 11. In the bottom box also have a look at how much Rubbish he had to get rid off.
The youth product argument that you had for Fergie is valid but he has been in charge for much longer. It is just recently he has been given full control over youth policy and we now expect more youth to be coming through to the first team, unless we get more resources available.
Please comment… who has spent more….
Liverpool - Rafa or Fergie - Man U
dev. means developed within the club
Bought NAME Sold
1,5 Alvaro Arbeloa 2,5m
2.5m ? Fabio Da Silva
1,5m Ngog
free Michael Owen
10m Babel
15m Nani
10m Kuyt
15m Ronaldo 80m
10m A. Riera
17m Antonio Valencia (undisc.)
14m Alonso 30m
15m Anderson
17m Masch
17m M. Carrick
17m Glen Johnson (undisc.)
8m Patrize Evra
19m Alberto Aquilani (undisc.)
17m Hargreaves
6m Skretel
30m Ferdinand
20.5m Torres
28m Rooney
20m Robbie Keane 16m
30m Berbatov
6,5 Pennant Free
15m Zoran Tosic
2m Sotirios Kyrgiakos (undisc.)
5m? M. Silvestre free
3m M. Gonzales 1,5m
3m Gabriel Obertan
4m Steve Finnan 2,5m
dev. G. Neville
500K P. Anderson 1,5M
3m? Tomaz Kuchazk
5m Agger
8m Vidic
5m Momo Sissoko 10m
3m Darren Fletcher
6m Reina
4m Van Der Saar
6m Morientez 2,5m
10m Saha 6m
6m Dossena
2.5m ? Raphael Da Silva
6m Lucas
6m Park Ji Sung
7m Crouch 10m
6m Tevez loan
800K/dev. Insua
8m? Heinze 6m
2m Josemi Switch
G. Pique 1,5m
Dev Damien Plessis
Dev. F. Campbell 6m
dev. Carragher
dev. D. Simpson
dev. Gerrard
dev. Giggs
Dev. S. Warnock 4m
dev. P. Neville 4m
dev. J. Hobbs 2m
dev. Jhonny Evans
Dev. Spearing
dev. K. Richardson 6m
Dev. El Zhar
Dev. Wellbeck
Dev. Pachecho
Dev. Gibson
Dev. Martin Kelly
Dev. Macheda
dev. Neil Mellor 1,5m
2m? L. Miller 2m?
free Voronin
dev. Paul Scholes
Free Aurelio
Dev. Wes Brown
Switch/trade Kromkamp 2.5m
dev. P. Bardsley 2m
6m Bellamy 6m
TOO OLD/BOUGHT BY OTHERS OR PART OF WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE RAFA CAME TO LIVERPOOL
10m E Diouf
? Roy Keane Free
6m V. Smicer free
? Forlan ?
free B. Zenden free
20m? Jaap Staam
? D. Traore 2,5
15m Van Nistelroy 20m
2.5m S. Hyppia Free
Dev . Beckham
4m J. Riise 4,5m
28m Veron
6m H. Kewell Free
1,5m Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
5m B. Cheyrou 1,5
10m Andy Cole free
3m G. Vignal free
14m D. Cisse 8m
5m F. Pongolle 4m
4m I. Biscan 3,5m
5m D. Murphy 1,5m
5m A. Diarra Free
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From: Chris Cowling
Sent: November 19, 2009 12:37 PM
To: Stian Andersen
Subject: RE:
you're insane! if they are such different clubs why do Liverpool fans compare their club to ManU (maybe you should compare yourself to City or Everton - more in your league)? reality is ... Liverpool think they are a big club - they have won one major trophy in the last 10 years (and that was luck!) - to me they are no different than Porto or Zenit - good teams who win once in a while... nothing more, nothing less. Fergie has been the best manager in football for the last 15 years and is still the best in the premier league and in the top 3 in Europe! I'll say it again, forget about resources - the bottom line is winning - Fergie wins and Rafa does not! that is irrefutable!
-----Original Message-----
From: Stian Andersen
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:28 PM
To: Chris Cowling
Subject: RE:
Don’t you worry we will win the FA cup and be close to winning the title again this year. We are going on a run… just you watch. Not saying that Fergie is a bad manager by any account but… I think with his resources many could have done as well or better. You keep comparing Man U to our team however you forget that they are two very different clubs with very different circumstances. That is all I am saying. Considering those circumstances Rafa has done really well.
Fergie years ago was probably a better manager than what Benitez is now but I honestly think Benitez would do better with the current crop at Untied than what Fergie has done this year…
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From: Chris Cowling
Sent: November 19, 2009 12:25 PM
To: Stian Andersen
Subject: RE:
my ...my...my... sentiments of a supporter with nothing to cheer about so go after those who have success. You forget that he won a European cup with Aberdeen (hardly a BIG club with lots of $). Who you beat and who you lose to during the year mean nothing - it is where you finish that counts - a Liverpool fan should know that as they continually finish everywhere but at the top! Many managers have had equal or superior recourses and they do not have jobs anymore - tired of hearing all the $ excuses from Liverpool - if he was such a great manager, he would win - period! Don't forget - Real, Chelsea, Milan, Barcelona.. all spend as much or more that ManU, yet Fergie has outlasted countless managers from those clubs!
-----Original Message-----
From: Stian Andersen
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:15 PM
To: Chris Cowling
Subject: RE:
Fergie is going downhill. We can all see it. He has had superior resources for a while and has thrived on that. By all means he used to bring through talent after talent but over the next few years you will see Chelsea/Arsenal win more titles than United and Liverpool unless United bring in a new manager or invest heavily in the squad again.
With Man U’s resources Arsenal would have stayed on top. You even admitted you were lucky to win versus Arsenal this year. You lost to us, and you lost to Chelsea and might I add Burnley….
You might win the Carling cup this year but that is about it.
Stian
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From: Chris Cowling
Sent: November 19, 2009 11:30 AM
To: Stian Andersen
Subject: RE:
all that counts are trophies and he is a distant 2nd .... and not to Wenger!!!! Fergie rules!!!!!!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Stian Andersen
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 11:27 AM
Subject:
Should we have signed Aquilani for £19m or should we have signed. Mr. injury prone himself.
Michael Turner £4m, £6m Lee Cattermole and Niko Krankjar £2,5m and Aaron Ramsay for £3m for a total of £15,5m
Here is the talk about how we could have signed ramsey
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2009/11/17/rafa-benitez-i-d-quit-if-liverpool-fc-sold-fernando-torres-100252-25186920/
However, in Rafa we trust.
I still think he is just about the second best manager in PL! After Wenger!
Interesting article…
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2009/11/19/liverpool-fc-manager-rafael-benitez-warns-alberto-aquilani-that-he-must-bide-his-time-to-be-unleashed-on-the-premier-league-100252-25203019/
YNWA~!
Stian
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